Weddings Don’t Have to Mean Debt

Andrea Chang of the Los Angeles Times wrote an article about keeping wedding costs down.

Wedding costs can be outrageous. Every dollar spent on the wedding is more than a dollar that you won’t have down the road during the marriage – to spend on a home, or a car, or education, or retirement, or medical care, or insurance, or a vacation.

A typical bride-to-be, Katrina Macrae has bought a dress, browsed different varieties of flowers and settled on a date and location for her April nuptials.

But her bridal gown is actually an ivory-colored prom dress that she picked up for $160. The flowers will be purchased wholesale from the flower district in downtown Los Angeles the day before the wedding. And she's getting married to her fiance, Scott Smith, on a Sunday, when location fees are usually cheaper.

My wife also found in inexpensive – but very beautiful – dress, and got the flowers wholesale.

At a time when the average wedding costs about $30,000, Macrae, of Redondo Beach, plans to spend $8,000.

$30,000 – and that’s for average. That’s probably taking into account those quickie civil ceremonies. Some people spend much more than $30,000 on the flowers alone. Ridiculous. We beat the average, thankfully, and still had the wedding in a beautiful church on a Saturday.

Then, in April, she was laid off from her job at an architectural firm because of the cooling housing market, and Turner said she realized more than ever that a wedding shouldn't mean "starting your life off with debt."

That is true even in an economic boom.

And when Turner learned she'd have to fork over $4.25 per guest for a cake-cutting fee, she scrapped plans for a wedding cake and ordered cupcakes.

Good for her! I attended a wedding where the bride and groom had a small cake of their own, and everyone else got some of several sheet cakes from Costco. Good move.

There’s a paradox in our current culture that has elevated weddings while degrading marriage. The wedding day has always been the bride’s big day (you don’t see Modern Groom magazine on many coffee tables, do you?), and so the tradition that her parents pay for the wedding made some sense. Now, as people have their weddings later in life, they tend to pay more for their own. Since women tend to marry men who earn more than they do, what this really means is that the groom is paying for the bride’s party. Her day to wear an expensive dress she’ll never wear again. Her day to be the center of attention. Her day to have flowers everywhere, that will die in mere days. Plus to even get there, he has to buy her an expensive diamond and gold ring.

We’ve turned weddings into an excuse to throw parties and get gifts and then go on a vacation.

And then there are weddings where I have to wonder why the groom is even bothering. If they are already shacking up, why, other than the parties and gifts, should they bother to get married? And get married in a church, no less? I know why some guys do this – they are afraid she’s going to leave without a wedding. The thing is, if they were shacking up for a while, chances are she’s going to leave anyway, or rather kick him out - or so the statistics would have us believe. Only post-wedding, he’ll be obligated to pay her alimony.

Let’s not forget the bachelorette parties, either, which, from what I understand, tend to get raunchier than bachelor parties. Why bother to get married if you value your intended so little that you’ll participate in some of those shenanigans? Just stay single and enjoy those shenanigans whenever you want to. I firmly asserted that I would not have stippers, "dancers", prostitutes, porn films, or any related stuff of that sort in my pre-wedding festivities, and despite prodding from some of the guys, I insisted on sticking to that.

We should celebrate marriage with nice weddings, but we should also celebrate marriage in other ways – like saving sex and living together for marriage. But how many of us do that? Attending a wedding used to mean pledging, as a witness, to support that covenant. It wasn't just a party and a meal.

Finally… since weddings are really about the bride, and since more often the groom is the one paying for it, I think most of these guys should see if they can get a pre-nup that will take the costs of the wedding – with interest – out of any money she gets in the event of a divorce – especially if she is the one who files for divorce. Not sure if such a stipulation would stick.

Please Stop Watching “The Bachelor” and “The Bachelorette”

Although I own shares of ABC’s parent company, I hereby urge everyone (which mostly means women) to stop watching “The Bachelor” and “The Bachelorette”. Isn’t it obvious now that, like other matchmaking “reality” shows, that the goal isn’t matching compatible people for lasting relationships? The goal is to get you to watch the show. That means participants and situations are going to be selected to be geared towards that, not towards developing an honorable relationship. With extreme rare exceptions (maybe no exceptions, actually), these kinds of shows have failed to produce a lasting relationship. Just about any other television show, reality or otherwise, has had a better track record than the modern matchmaking shows. The real goal of any of the pool of hopefuls is to stay on television as long as possible, not to find true love. How can you find true love with cameras and bright lights and a crew surrounding you whenever you are together?

Here’s E! Online Natalie Finn’s story on the latest with “The Bachelor”. Last I checked, E! is partially owned by ABC’s parent company, so this isn’t going to be hard-hitting journalism.

Recent Bachelorette reject Jason Mesnick, whose heart DeAnna Pappas passed over in her own second-time-around quest for love, has signed on to be the new
Bachelor when the ABC series returns in January 2009.

Ugh.

The hunky single dad from Seattle had been all primed to propose, ring and everything, when Pappas stopped him from getting down on one knee, leaving him—and plenty of viewers—crushed.

He’s a divorced dad. He shouldn’t be dating. Much less on TV. He should be concentrating on raising his child.

Instead, she opted for 26-year-old snowboarder Jesse Csincsak.

And how is that working out? You can keep track of this sort of thing on Wikipedia.

Now Mesnick gets another shot at making the perfect match. The hunt is on for 25 ladies willing to bare their hearts, souls and, in some cases, claws on national TV.

And be portrayed as the producers/editors choose. Actually many of them are struggling/hopeful actresses anyway, and they will act on the show.

The logistics are still being hammered out, but Chris Harrison, who hosts both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, told iFilm.com during the recent Television Critics Association press tour that Mesnick's 3-year-old son, Ty, "would have to take center stage."

Great. Let’s screw up this kid as much as possible.

“If they look for the right people [to cast], anything is possible."

Hey, buddy, they aren’t going to cast people who are fundamentally compatible with you – at least not for the most part. They are going to cast a wide variety of attractive women based on their ability to fill archetypes, stereotypes, and entertain the audience.

Sexism Holding Career Women Back?

If I was a bettin’ man, I’d wager that Tom Leykis will talk about this one on his show today – provided it isn’t a tape or the time isn’t taken up with some comedian plugging an upcoming gig.

Women are their own workplace enemies when it comes to cracking the glass ceiling, with an international study finding they are less likely to promote themselves and network than their male counterparts.

Surprise, surprise!

I have worked in places where my boss was female and most of my coworkers were female. Many of my coworkers confided that they prefer male bosses.

The 2008 study, part of U.S. behavioral scientist Shannon L. Goodson's new book "The Psychology of Sales Call Reluctance," compared almost 11,500 professional women with 16,700 men from 34 countries.

Sounds extensive.

Goodson said professional women in Britain, the United States and China were more likely to promote their interests, whereas women in New Zealand and Sweden are the most timid, followed by Australian and Canadian women.

But overall, women were not doing enough to advance their own careers, she said in a statement.

For both men and women other priorities often interfere with career advancement. However, the fact is, men don’t get pregnant and they don’t nurse. They also don't take time off because of a bad period.

"Being able to draw attention to your contributions and competencies at work has become an important part of modern career management, and it is something most women are still unwilling or unable to do as consistently as their male counterparts," she added.

Sometimes, you have to be aggressive. Plus men, as the sexual pursuers through most of history and across cultures, have had to market themselves. It is more likely to be in our system.

Goodson's research also found that women who had managed to climb up the
corporate ladder tended to "take the ladder with them," sometimes even sabotaging the chances of other female workers seeking promotion.

Sad, but true.

This part of the study, which was conducted mainly in the United States, revealed women executives may not be as encouraging or supportive of female staff.

I’ve heard that complaint.

"This led many women in the study to actually prefer male managers to female
managers, claiming men are more consistent and fair-minded than women," Goodson added.

If a man said this he’d be savaged as a sexist pig. But denying reality impedes progress.

I’m glad that feminism gave women some real choices. But the feminists who tried to convince women that they could have it all were not being honest. The fact is, you must make choices. You won’t be able to take every opportunity before you. Men who want to ascend to the top of the business world need to be cautious about marrying and starting a family, and this is even more true for women. Women who want to scale those heights need to market themselves and sometimes be aggressive. And it looks like it might help to get a male boss.

More Marriage Fun in Dear Abby

PRACTICAL IN DENVER, who “despises” wearing rings, yet plans to get engaged, wrote:

I have an expensive heirloom ring I would gladly give to my lady if she'd keep it in the safe deposit box where it belongs. I don't want to insure it, deal with it if she loses it, or know I caused her to be injured if a thug tried to steal it. If I give it to her, she'll want to wear it.

I wonder if this guy even has a good reason for proposing? While their obvious disagreement over wearing jewelry should not be a dealbreaker, I do have to wonder if this guy has stepped back to take a look at the larger picture.

She doesn't need an ornament to prove she's special or loved.

No, she doesn’t. Come to think of it, I can’t recall a good explanation for why a man who does want to get married should buy an engagement ring for a woman. Don’t pull out the “tradition” card unless you are consistent about sticking to tradition. Life has changed. Women can vote now. They own their own property, earn their own money, and have their own authority. So why is a man supposed to spend thousands of dollars on a ring? Wouldn’t that money be better served building a life together?

I'd rather give her an annuity or something useful.

Not a bad idea.

I feel the same when I see rings in the workplace and socially. Why not just duct-tape a $1,000 bill to your forehead if you want to call attention to yourself?

It’s called “pretend”. We’ve pretended that gold and diamonds are classy in a way that wearing cash isn’t.

He should keep the heirloom, and if he’s going to give her a ring, it should be a new one.

Dear Abby responded:

Before you pop the question, be absolutely sure you and your lady have a meeting of the minds on this subject.

Sounds like a good idea.

Candidly, from the tone of your letter you come across as rigid, opinionated and controlling.

Of course! A man who doesn’t want to blow thousands of dollars on a ring for someone else is controlling. Any man who doesn’t allow women to run his life is controlling.

While you are entitled to your biases, if you marry an "intelligent and productive working woman," she should be able to decide for herself what kind of jewelry is appropriate.

She sure can. She can also buy it herself.

Also, I find it sad that you would rather keep an expensive heirloom ring hidden in a safety deposit box than have your lady enjoy it -- presuming, of course, that it's her taste and she WOULD enjoy wearing it.

And assuming, that the laws of his state and the practicalities of the courts there make it reasonably certain he would get the ring back without penalty if she decided to commit adultery and file for divorce.

TROUBLED IN TORONTO wrote in:

I'm a divorcee, dating a man I'll call "Jack," who has been separated from his wife for three years. We've known each other two years and have been intimate for 11 months now.

So you are fornicating with a married man.

Jack's daughter is being married in Mexico in two months. I have met both his adult children; they seem happy he is finally in a relationship. The problem is, Jack hasn't invited me to the wedding.

Fornicating with someone does not make you part of the family.

Jack attended my son's wedding with me last summer. It was 1,500 miles away. I had no problem taking him there.

You were free to make that choice. He is free to make his. You are free to stop fornicating with him. Although it does seem strange to take a married man with whom you are fornicating to a wedding. I mean, why celebrate marriage if you don't actually respect marriage and see a difference between someone being married and someone no longer being married?

Jack says he isn't divorced because he doesn't want to "pay the cost" of one -- although he does have a separation agreement.

I know a lot of women scoff at that, but divorce is costly for men.

I suspect he wants to avoid the stress of revealing our relationship to his former wife, who left him after 25 years of marriage.

Or maybe you are more of a booty call? Or maybe his daughter doesn’t want you there? Maybe he is hoping his wife will come back? Maybe it is all of the above?

Prostitution?

W. Tom Foster of Santa Ana, California, wrote in to the Orange County Register:

So we are paying multiple members of the law-enforcement community upward of $100,000 per year to cruise the Internet hunting down persons who wish to engage in sexual activity for money ["Prostitution fight hits Web," Local, Aug. 17].

Why hasn't Heather Mills, the ex-wife of Paul McCartney, been arrested? I guess charging $50 million for a few years of promised sexual activity doesn't count.

Don’t forget Phil Collins’ third wife. How many songs did she write or perform again? Why does she deserve all of that money? Oh, that’s right. She was clever enough to marry a man without an effective pre-nup.

I can understand why people don't want hookers walking Harbor Boulevard, but two people meeting over the Internet and making arrangements to go to a motel
doesn't seem all that bad to me – especially when we have gangs and illegal drug
users robbing people and desecrating our cities with spray paint.

Well, we can always come up with hierarchy of crime and say that we shouldn’t be committing resources to X, Y, or Z as long as there are murders being committed, But I do find myself leaning to and fro on the fence about prostitution. I defy anyone to present an objective difference between most present-day dating and prostitution. Why is chatting online and agreeing to have sex and that one person will give money to another any different from agreeing to have sex after one pays for dinner for another?

As long as our laws and courts say that sexual activity between consenting adults is a private matter and can’t be criminalized (uh, except if they are related, or work together, or any number of exceptions), then I find it hard to see why this activity should be illegal. Streetwalking is a different story. A public street is owned by the people and the people can collectively decide whether or not to allow that. When a road is private, it should up to the owner of the road.

Again, I believe sex is for marriage and that all sex outside of marriage is wrong. Whether or not it should be illegal is a different matter.

Good Work, Tom

Tom Leykis helps snag a possible murderer. Read about it here.

When He Calls Off the Wedding

There was a caller to Dr. Laura today whose ex-fiancé called off their wedding two months out. He gave many reasons, any one of which should have been enough to show that he didn’t want to get married. At least not then. At least not to her. Dr. Laura pointed out to the caller that she should be happy that he called off the wedding when he did instead of waiting until after they were married and expecting a child to reveal that he didn’t want to be married.

The caller was emotional, no doubt in part to the fact that she had started seeing him again – which I’m sure means that they were fornicating, only now he didn’t have to face a wedding and marriage.

When a guy calls off a wedding, it often comes as a complete surprise to the woman who was expecting to be a bride. That’s because, especially that close to the wedding, she is so wrapped up in planning her party, her big day, that she will ignore any of the clues.

Why do men call off weddings? I’ve never called off a wedding that had a date set. I was once "engaged" to a woman who kept breaking up with me and kept handing back the engagement ring and then kept coming back to me and insisting that we simply resume like nothing had happened. Yeah, I was ridiculous back then to put up with that at all, but I had it in my head that you were supposed to make a relationships work. I didn’t yet realize that 1) not all people who were somewhat compatible in their outlook on life are meant to be together, and 2) there was nothing wrong with being single and that it was preferable at that age. Fortunately, I smartened up enough to decide that I’d rather be single for the rest of my life than take her back yet again, and I made it stick. Having been through that, having gone through a wedding myself, and having a Y chromosome, I have something to say about why men call off weddings.

A man calls off weddings because:

He’s realized he doesn’t want to get married
-to you
-yet
-at all

Maybe he never wanted to get married to begin with. Maybe he proposed marriage or agreed to get married because he felt obligated because 1) you got pregnant; 2) you’re shacking up or at least fornicating; 3) he’s getting something from you like a job through your dad or your cooking and cleaning services; 4) his family was pressuring him.

But maybe that wasn’t the case. Either way, let’s look at the possibilities.

He doesn’t want to get married to you. You may not believe that because he was willing to fornicate with you, but men will stick their penises in knotholes on 2x4s. You may not believe it because he was shacking up with you. But shacking up is different than marriage. So is dating you for a really long time. Men don't grow up dreaming about their wedding day the same way women do.

But even if he, at one time, genuinely wanted to get married to you, that could have changed.

Why? Maybe it is because he’s learned more about you and your family – more of the flaws and baggage and shortcomings and personality differences, how you behave under stress or pressure, and he’s decided he can’t handle it, or at least doesn’t want to deal with it. Maybe as you started to taste the power you would have as a wife, your true nature started to reveal itself and he didn’t like he saw. Let’s face it – when a man gets married in today’s society, he’s forfeiting a lot of his power over himself – legally and socially. He’s forming a corporation with you, and if you should decide to break it up, he will lose half of everything that corporation earned, which more often means what he earned. A man may grow uncomfortable forfeiting his power and autonomy and earnings to a woman who has already started to show a pre-occupation with her own wants and willful ignorance of his needs. Ideally, a woman is also giving up her autonomy when she marries, but there’s nothing in the law that can enforce that, and a husband risks getting branded as "controlling" if he expects his wife not to behave like an unmarried woman.

He doesn’t want to get married yet. Circumstances may have changed – jobs, earnings, bills, health, whatever. He’s realized that he isn’t - or is no longer - in a position to take on the responsibilities of being a husband.

He doesn’t want to get married at all. Some men don’t realize this until marriage looms close and they suddenly realize what marriage means in today’s society. With community property and no-fault divorce laws, the only thing a state-licensed marriage guarantees is: 1) the spouse who earns more will have to pay the other spouse in the event of divorce; 2) any child born to the wife will be considered the husband’s by default. State-licensed marriage also tends to mean that a stepchild living in the marital home will be entitled to child support from the stepparent in the event of a divorce. These things usually work against men.

Is there anything a woman who wants to be wife can do to reduce the chances of having her wedding called off (or, for that matter, reduce her changes of divorce)? Yes.

Realize that your vagina is not magic. Using it or thinking about it (if you are holding out) will not make a man who doesn’t want to get married, or married yet, or married to you change his mind. If you have been dating for four years and you’re not married yet – chances are, he doesn’t really want to get married. It’s different if one or both of you is still in school, but in that case you should be seeing other people or nobody at all anyway.

Don’t pressure or nag a man to propose. If a man wants to marry you and he is ready to be a husband, he will propose on his own. It is perfectly fine saying on or before the first date (or on a second date or whatever) that you are dating to find a spouse. It is also fine to say at any time during the dating that you do not plan on living with or having sex with any man who is not your husband… or anything else you won’t be doing until you are married. But do not nag or pressure.

Don’t get pregnant hoping that will get him to marry you or will fix problems in a marriage.

Do not accept a marriage proposal too quickly into the relationship – most likely, something is amiss if he proposes too fast.

Save sex for marriage, then give him enthusiastic, passionate, or playful sex any time he wants it. Hey, I know this advice will not be followed by most women, but it works. A corollary to this is: do not shack up – wait until you are married to live together. If you are fornicating, and especially if you are shacking up, he has less motivation to marry you, and you may want to get married and he may agree to even if you are not the right spouses for each other because you have formed these bonds.

Make him glad you are getting married, and then glad he married you. You do this by paying attention to his needs, and that includes not letting yourself fall apart. If you picked the right man, he will pay attention to your needs. Deal with your major problems or challenges before committing – such as establishing yourself, paying off debt, getting your head shrunk, settling deadly vendettas, serving your prison time, etc.

Only commit to someone who is compatible with you in the most important areas of life, such as major goals, existing and desired lifestyle, worldview, and personality. This should be basic, but too many people, especially women, come up with this play in their heads and "cast" someone to fill the role of their romantic lead, ignoring that the real person does not match the "scripted" role.

Get pre-marital counseling with clergy or through your church (or equivalent), or with a family-minded licensed therapist. Strongly consider legal and financial counseling, including a pre-nuptial agreement that spells out expectations and conditions. The state already has a pre-nup for you – you might as well have one to which both of you agree, even if you don’t have any significant assets – yet. It is also a good thing to meet as a couple with your respective doctors so that any medical conditions that either of you have and their ramifications are discussed. Surprises and secrets in these areas are almost never a good thing.

So there you have it. You can completely ignore my advice if you’d like. Goodness knows, I didn’t know all of this before I got married, and so I definitely didn’t stick to all of this.

Dear Margo Advises Catholic Guy About His Dating

HEARTSICK recently wrote in to Dear Margo:

I am a 23-year-old Catholic male. The last serious relationship I was in ended when I was 17.

That wasn’t really a serious relationship. It only felt like it to you.

Even though we dated for three years, we never went "all the way."

Good for you.

Now I am intimidated by women who have more sexual history than I do.

Intimidated? Is that the right word? You should only be intimidated if they are
assaulting you.

I have always believed that one sexual partner for one's entire life is the ideal.

You mean you believe in line with your religion? Wow. Imagine that.

Here comes the fun part.

Recently, a 20-year-old woman whom I care for deeply told me in explicit detail about a sexual experience she had with a 45-year-old man she met on the Internet.

RED FLAGS! (And there’s that “met on the Internet” thing again. It is completely irrelevant. It is like saying “met in a library”. Come to think of it, he might be in the "friend" category for her anyway, making this whole thing pointless.)

She did not mean to have sex with him, she told me, and the circumstances as she explained them sounded like borderline rape.

Hmmmm. So she thought a 45-year-old man simply found her, a 20-year-old, so fascinating and insightful, that he just had to meet her in person, in private? Hey, I speak from experience - when a 45 year old you met online wants to spend time with you and you are 20, they want sex; even if the sexes are reversed. (No, I'm nowhere near 45. You figure it out.)

Okay – let’s go over the possibilities here:

1) She was naïve and showed very poor judgment and wanted to get her ego stroked so badly that she put herself in a very bad situation and was raped. I do not excuse rape, just like I do not excuse grand theft auto, but I think someone who leaves the keys in the ignition and the car door open and unattended is still an idiot.

2) She is not telling you the truth or telling it wholly or accurately. This could be because she doesn’t want to take responsibility for her own actions, so she could be recasting her fornication as rape.

3) She attracts “dangerous” men.

Do you want to be with a woman like that? At the very least, she isn’t ready to be in a healthy relationship. Actually, at 23, you probably have some more time to go before you see someone exclusively anyway. You should be out dating various women so you can be sure to develop a good idea of what kind of woman you enjoy spending time with. Wish someone would have told me that when I was 23.

Think about this – if this woman engaged willingly in fornication with this guy and then later recasts it as rape, she is more likely to do the same with you. False rape accusations are nothing to take lightly.

However, if she was raped, you can hardly call this “sexual experience”. And if she was raped, she should turn that guy in to law enforcement.

I am afraid that if I stay involved with her, the knowledge of that experience will eat away at me.

Leave now. If she was raped, she doesn’t need someone like you adding to her troubles. If she simply had sex she claims to regret, it will still bother you. Either way, it is best to move on.

Doesn’t the Roman Catholic Church have all sorts of people for this guy to turn to for advice in situations like this? It seems to me that writing in to Dear Margo is fishing for getting the exact answer he wants to hear.

Dear Margo responded:

I encourage you to move away from your instinct to "fully understand" or to find and punish this man.

Move away altogether.

It would be a shame to end the relationship because of something basically out of this woman's control.

Would it really? Should everyone volunteer to subject themselves to a relationship with someone with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? We’re not talking a married couple where one spouse gets traumatized. We’re talking about a new dating situation. If he doesn’t want to knowingly enter in to a new relationship with someone who has PTSD, that is his choice and certainly understandable.

Because you say you are intimidated by women more experienced than you are, perhaps a few sessions with a mental health professional will help you over this hurdle.

Be sure to pick a solid Catholic, or at least Biblical counselor. Otherwise, you’ll get someone who will tell you that the solution is to fornicate a lot. Or, you could stick to women who don’t have more “experience” than you. There’s nothing wrong with that. But make no mistake: If someone is raped, that does not mean something is wrong with them or they are sexually impure.