One Flesh Or Not?

Dr. Laura will often tell wives calling in (and thus wives listening to her show) that it's not a big deal for a husband (and father of minor children) to enjoy adult media...

...as long as he's not doing it instead of being with her and the adult media doesn't feature children, small farm animals, men (gay porn), or barely legal adults.

This has to greatly upset the portion of her audience that has bought into the anti-porn panic/hysteria about how it turns brains into mush and turns men into serial killers, or women who consider to be a form of infidelity.

But what about the other end of this spectrum? Dr. Laura, like a lot of other relationship experts, says it's a problem if he's using such media instead of being with his willing wife. This appears to be a presumption that his body and sexuality belong to his wife.

Put the Shackle Back On

On Tuesday, October 18, 2022, the Dr. Laura Program ran a call in the third hour that I'm almost certain was a repeat or was recorded off-air. Both are regular elements of the program.

The call was with a husband and wife. The husband had just left the wife within the last few days.

The focus of the call became the husband's claim that he left so he could do what he wanted to do. It sounded like he wanted to golf, fish, and certain other similar things.

Dr. Laura kept hounding him with "Why can't you do it while you're married to her?"

Then Dr. Laura said that she did what she wanted to do while married to her late husband. Note: Dr. Laura usually will not allow callers to compare themselves to her or ask what she'd personally do, but she often compares herself to the caller.

But there was a problem with that.

The caller was the husband. Dr. Laura was a wife. Dr. Laura usually notes significant differences between men and women, husbands and wives, and their power within marriage. In her marriage specifically, she had the fame and was a high income earner. She was also a trained psychotherapist. And for the last how many years of the marriage, Dr. Laura was in much better health and shape than her husband. OF COURSE SHE DID WHAT SHE WANTED.

A husband has little power other than to leave, and for most husbands, leaving still doesn't restore all of his power, and the courts will order the husband to spend a significant amount of his life earning money for his ex.

Many husbands can't do what they want because most wives have an extensive list of things (written or not) for the husband to do that occupies his time and energy, and if he doesn't do them or even if he does and his wife doesn't like what he wants to do with his leftover time, she can make his life a living Hell.

She can get hostile and bitchy. She can bitch at him and nag him, including while he's trying to sleep (that one is especially fun, I know from experience). She can shut down all affection. She can get him kicked out of his own home. She can spend him into debt. She can destroy his belongings. There's worse.

She urged the husband to go back to his wife, saying he can do what he wants to do and still be married. Yet, if he had already been doing what he wanted to do Dr. Laura might have gotten a call from the wife and told the wife she was married to a selfish man who didn't want to be married or that she "doesn't have a marriage."

It sounded to me like Dr. Laura was trying to prevent the wife from being a divorced woman at an age she would have slim pickings for a new husband. The call wasn't anywhere near long enough to get a good idea of what has really been going on in the marriage. Dr. Laura may have known due to a letter or what was discussed or sent back and forth prior to the call, but the listeners didn't.

Are There Really Seven Million American Men Refusing to Work?

Senator Josh Hawley was on Hour 2 of the Tuesday, June 20, 2023 Dennis Prager Show to promote a book. [This entry is being bumped up because I just saw the claim in the post title again -things haven’t changed in years?]

Senator Hawley and Mr. Prager were lamenting the "crisis" that supposedly seven million able men of employable age are NOT working in the USA, and that is supposedly NOT including men who are on Unemployment. Of course one of the biggest problems they see with this is that women don't want to marry guys who aren't gainfully employed, because Heaven forbid women not get whatever they want and some people NOT marry.

The assumption is that these men are sitting around playing video games, watching adult media, and getting high.

Curiously, there were no figures provided for women who aren't working to provide as a comparison. That's because it is OK for women not to work. It's not OK, in the minds of some people, that a man doesn't work.

It is unlikely that there are really seven million men who are perfectly healthy who are sitting around just doing whatever they want and nothing else even though they're financially dependent on family, a girlfriend, a wife, etc. There might be a few men doing exactly that, but if I was a betting man I'd bet that almost all of those 7 million men have one or more of the following going on:

• Undiagnosed/untreated/unregistered physical and mental disorders
• Homeless
• Retired, even if unofficially and early
  
• Stay at home dad or house husband (yes, some women agree to this, and some men are with other men who agree to it)
• Helping to care for younger or disabled siblings, elderly or disabled parents
• They own enough (investments, real estate, etc.) they don't need employment
• They have their own business but haven't officially registered their business
• They work gigs
• They buy, sell, and trade without being registered as a business
  
• Under the table work
• Work in the family business, off the books 
• They consider themselves artists and are supported by others enough (even if just their parents) they don't need a registered job
  
• They're getting their education
  
• Black market
• Going through the criminal justice system
  
• Traveling or exploring
• Working on their skills outside of formal education
• Jobseeking while not formally on Unemployment 

Obviously, men being in some of those categories is a bad thing, but for other categories, it's not a problem at all.

The fact is, the overwhelming majority of men who play games, watch adult media, and/or do drugs are employed. Most of them are married or in some form of romantic or sexual relationship.

If a man has gotten the message that he's not needed or wanted in workplaces and doesn't want to sign a terrible state contract, and he's found a way to stay off the public dole that isn't destructive, good for him. I don't see a need for him to change to please a Senator, a talk show host, or a woman.

The Senator claimed this has been building for fifty years. Now why would that be? What happened 50 years ago? Hmmmm…

He also says America needs you to get a job and start a family. How about... America needs you to not be dependent on government. We don't need every man out there to start a family. Want more men to marry? See what I wrote here.

What Is A Real Man?

A real man is any human being who is:
1. Male

2. 18 years of age or older
3. Not fictional

Whether a man does or doesn't do any certain things you or anyone else likes or doesn't like has ZERO determination over whether he is a real man or not.

Grandpa Lived in a Different Era

I’m so tired of people asking why husbands and fathers today aren't like their grandfathers or great-grandfathers in terms of leading their homes, tempering their wife when she's way out of line, and keeping their kids in line, etc. The embellished memories of how those men of yore kept everything hunky dory without losing their cool can be entertaining and even amusing to hear once or twice, but the constant extolling of this imagined past familial utopia is irritating.

There are very important things that aren't included in this praise of these "real" men.

Those men could literally beat their wives and children, rape their wives, and kick any of them out of home without giving them a dime in walking money. If some punk was horning in on one of the girls in the family, the dad could run him off the property with a gun. And none of it was against the law or, even if it was technically against the law, nobody would arrest these men, let alone prosecute them or convict them. Now, not all men actually ran their homes like that, but the general cultural understanding that they could was enough to keep their families in line. Wives and children did run away, facing destitution in doing so, especially when relatives were unwilling to take them in. Many of their relatives would side with the husband/father. Yes, a woman might find that her own father would side with his son-in-law. Just about everyone else did, too... employers/customers, clergy and congregations, mental health providers, doctors, banks, newspaper editors... just about anyone. Wives were told to go back and obey and please their husbands, with maybe doing something on the sly behind his back (like squirreling away some savings if the husband would spend too much or wouldn't let his wife have enough money).

A married woman couldn’t get a credit card or engage in many other financial actions without her husband’s agreement. This is the real reason some women had secret stashes of cash the home. They couldn’t put it in a bank without their husband knowing.

Unlike now, a marriage license was an actual license to live together, have sex, and have children. There could be serious legal consequences if you did any of those things without a marriage license. That license gave a man access to his wife’s body, whether she felt like it at the moment or not. If she cheated on him, not only could be beat her, kick her out, and divorce her, but she could be criminally charged and she certainly wouldn’t get half of everything plus lifetime alimony.

Is that how things should be run? I'm not saying these were good things. But they "worked" in that they 1) kept children from being a disobedient presence in the family home, and 2) kept wives from emasculating their husbands or acting significantly in contradiction to what he wanted. If you can find an acceptable way to achieve those goals now, please share it with us. We’d love to know the secret. And sorry, telling men to “be like your grandfather” ain’t going to do it. You might as well tell someone to fly on a magic unicorn. Grandpa lived in a different era.

The men of today have different dynamics to deal with in the home. They also have different dynamics to deal with outside the home. Every workplace, every institution has been feminized, and most of them have been integrated with women. Most media and most businesses and other organizations seek to cater to feminine sensitivities and priorities when there is a conflict with masculine. Grampa didn’t have to compete with both other men and women in selling his labor. He didn’t have to worry that having a normal conversation with another guy at work could get him fired for “harassment” because someone overhead something they didn’t like.

Sorry, everything else has been changed. You can't expect men to behave as though nothing has changed.

To What Should Males Aspire?

I heard Dennis Prager ask to what men would aspire if not marriage and raising a family. He's repeatedly said that guys are not real men if they aren't husbands and fathers. This is something heard from various corners of our culture, along with other assertion of what makes a guy a "real man". [This entry has been bumped up.]

Notice you never hear what makes a real woman. You never hear "What a real woman does, is..."

What is a guy if he isn't a real man? An artificial man? A transgender man? Of course, that's not what people are talking about. They are saying a "real man" as opposed to a man who is somehow lacking, or, as they might say, a "boy". There's nothing wrong with boys, at least not beyond the general thing of humans being fallen creatures. Again, you don't hear this with women. Women will refer to each other and themselves as girls and nothing negative is meant by it.

A real man is any adult human male who isn't fictional. For example, Prince Charming is fictional. Christian Grey is fictional. Jack Sparrow is fictional.

If there was such thing as a "real man" as opposed to an adult male who isn't a real man, that real man wouldn't give a piece of dung what other people say makes a real man. because when someone says, "What a real man does, is...",  what they're saying is "What I like men to do is..." Because real men urinate unless they have kidney problems, real man have weaknesses, and real men mess things up sometimes. But you'll never hear "What a real man does is urinate." But it's true.

Getting back to Prager's question...

Facebook is a Front Row Seat to a Train Wreck

[Bumped up.] Human memory is one thing.


Being able to have written/video/photographic evidence is another.

Yesterday, I noticed a couple of high school classmates of mine indicating on Facebook that they are each going through divorces. I thought back to previous updates from them and how I'd like to juxtapose them with their current updates. There's gotta be a blog or website that does this already, right? Feel free to leave the URL in the comments (always feel free to comment). And yes, I'm well aware the same could be said for this blog, in terms of comparing old entries to current entries.

Facebook can be a great chronicler to show men that present-day legal-social marriage is, in a majority* of cases, a disaster.


Thanks to Facebook and the tendency for some people to overshare, we can pull the "highlights" into a condensed timeline that depicts:


1) The lovey-dovey joint selfies. Aren't they such a cute couple?!?
2) The Very Important Engagement Photos
3) The Even More Important Wedding Date Announcement - be sure to save the date!!!
4) HER Big Day! Awwww, they're so happy!!! It's amazing what spending tens of thousands of dollars can look like.
5) The Honeymoon Period - we'll see memes posted about the profound nature of marriage and how he's her soul mate.
[There may be pregnancy test, ultrasound, and baby photos scattered throughout, but ideally they'd be here.]
6) The inevitable clear, explicit tweets disrespecting and badmouthing her husband --OR-- the cryptic vague use of memes that indicate all is not well.
7) She changes her name back and starts a seemingly endless series of jabs at her (now ex, or soon to be ex) husband, the man she couldn't wait to marry. She may also post pleas for help moving, a place to stay, etc., and may also share photos of her new boyfriend, who is either a bad-boy or is obviously wealthier than her husband.


Facebook is also handy to document that many women butch up and blimp up after getting him to sign that legal contract. Even my wife pointed out how, when a friend of mine married, it wasn't even 24 hours later before his new bride chopped off her hair. There will be fewer pictures that include her that she'll post, or fewer that include a good view of her whole body. She might post cartoons and memes about how hard it is for a married woman to avoid letting herself go.


*Guys, here are the facts:

The divorce rate for first marriages, which is much lower than second/third/etc. marriages, is 40%. Much more than 10% of the marriages that last until at least one of them dies are miserable marriages most, or a significant amount of the time. That means the odds are that getting married will mean either getting divorced or being miserable. Yes, there ARE people who beat those odds, but there's no way to guarantee you'll be one of them.

Very few of today's women are prepared and willing to be a good wife to a man who is looking for someone to take care of the home and raise children. Dr. Laura tells women to inform their husbands that, despite whatever agreements they had, they will be staying home to raise the children; that they will budget to do with less income and since they won't have the stress of working outside the home, they will have the time and energy to be attentive mothers who take the children for nice outings, prepare homemade meals, and have lots of great sex with their husbands. Now, don't get me wrong... I think children should be raised by a loving parent instead of hired help and I agree this is how things should be, but how many women actually end up behaving that way? The husband gets trashed because they can't buy things or take as nice vacations living on his income alone; the kid gets stuck in a corner with a TV and/or a tablet; the meals either don't get prepared ("You have two hands, do it yourself!") or are microwave fare; the sex isn't going to be often enough or be all that good, because she doesn't want it as much as he does and she no longer has an incentive to pretend to be as into it as he is. Again, there ARE exceptions. If you're a woman who truly does raise your own kids and you take care of the man who is providing you with a roof over your head and paying your bills, then you're awesome. You're also a very rare species.

Dating Without Marriage in Sight

Good Catholic Husband Matt Walsh commanded people not to date if they don't want to get married. Dr. Laura has often told men they shouldn't be dating unless they're prepared to pay for a wife and kids. And she's also said people shouldn't marry until their late 20s. So I guess that means no dating for her followers until then. Here's Wash's column at Daily Wire. [This entry has been bumped up.]

It’s no secret that my generation is extremely delayed in the marriage department.

That's the first line. I wasn't aware there was a requirement to be married by a certain age.

The average age of marriage is now 27 for women and almost 30 for men.

That sounds about right.

Her Dreams Matter, His Dreams Don't

On the Tuesday, September 29, 2020 Dr. Laura show, during the third hour. Dr. Laura took a call from a married woman who wants to leave her position, which has six figures in pay, for something that will be close to minimum wage, at least for a while.

She said her husband was against doing that, mentioning the pay.

Dr. Laura said the caller's husband was "dismissive of her as a human being" and ignoring what would make her feel purposeful and satisfied, the "quality of your life," and it would be all about the money.

Dr. Laura said the marriage probably isn't going to survive. "So what if he things it is the wrong decision?"

Hmmm.

Wife Is Itching to Tear Down Her Husband

Dear Abby can be a great column to check regularly to be reminded why you don't want to marry. DONE WITH IT IN MAINE wrote to tell the world how awful her husband is. 

I have been married for 14 years to a man a lot of people in our town think has no flaws.

That's how the letter starts. Everyone knows he has flaws. But he's respected. And that's driving his wife nuts!

He helps a lot of people, and he is also a pastor,

Pastors are supposed to help people, yes.

Not All SAHMs Are Made Equal

I do generally believe that married parenting should involve a division of labor in the sense that someone should raising the kids and someone should be considered the breadwinner.

When Dr. Laura paints a portrait of a "stay-at-home" mother, she actually doesn't want them to stay home. It's more like they are "stay-with-kids" mothers. She describes them taking their kids to parks, taking the kids along as they walk, run, or bike, and constantly playing with the kids.

And she tells women who have husbands who aren't convinced those women should quit their jobs to stay with the kids to tell the husbands that they'll be able to prepare more homecooked meals and there will be a lot more sex.

But how many of these women really live up to these things? I applaud those who do, but what about the rest?

[This entry was bumped up from late 2015. We no longer have the other two adults living with us - they were here for a couple of years or so. Most of what they did has reverted to me.]

My wife has been a SAHM since before our first child, who was planned, was conceived.

Today, the kids are in school. My wife is still a SAHM.

Do the Dreams of Men Matter?

Dr. Laura has repeatedly told male callers to her show (either directly or through their wife calling) that it doesn't matter if they hate their job, they need to (financially) provide for their family and not be concerned with following some dream.

During yesterday's show (August 21, 2017) [yes, this entry has been bumped up] during the third hour, she got a call from a woman who has been a SAHM, formerly a dental assistant, who was going back to work due to her kids aging out, but as a preschool (= daycare, which Dr. Laura usually rails against) teacher. The woman prefers doing the preschool work, but the dental assistant work, which she could get, pays far more, and her husband wanted her to take that work instead of the preschool work, to facilitate saving for retirement.

Now, Dr. Laura has declared she'll never retire and she says she can't understand people who retire "early" (despite telling men to do jobs they hate), so that might have played into her answer. Most people do want to retire, though.

Dr. Laura specifically told this woman to follow her dream and do the preschool work, and to tell her husband she's going to budget to save money. She tells wives these things (like when she tells a wife to tell her husband she'll feel sexier if she can quit her job), but I wonder how many actually follow through and budget, and are more frequent/enthusiastic lovers? My guess is many don't. There may not be all that much they can do to save more money, or maybe the husband doesn't want to cut back on their current lifestyle? In this case, the kids were off the college so that was probably going to be a big financial strain.

Dr. Laura further said that she doesn't know what has happened to today's males, who are, in her estimation, telling women to "go be a slave, forget about your dreams and earn income". This is very revealing. Are husbands slaves? Anyone clued in to MGTOW would say yes. I'm right there with Dr. Laura when the kids are young and there needs to be a parent with them. One parent (usually the husband) needs to earn income and the other (usually the wife) needs to be primarily concerned with caretaking of the children. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about empty-nesters.

What has happened to today's males? Here's what has happened: It costs more to live longer. Husbands know career disruption is a big thing now and they can't count on having their job until retirement. Also, there are an awful lot of wives out there who decided to leave their marriages, and if they are earning nothing or significantly less than their husbands (as most wives do), they are getting alimony payments, and depending on the state, for the rest of their lives!

The caller's husband is trying to secure their joint future. If they're going to need care, that's going to cost. If they're going to want to travel, that's not cheap. If they're going to be paying for their kids' education and weddings, that can easily total hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So... do the dreams of men matter?

We're not talking about the needs of children. That's out of the picture at this point. Now it becomes a question of whose dreams matter more. His dreams appear to be centered on the two of them together. Her dreams are about what she's doing with her day.

If is important to note that Dr. Laura frequently refers to a man marrying as a man "laying down his life".

Men: Want to pursue your dreams? Want to live your life instead of laying it down? DON'T MARRY. When you marry, it becomes all about her. And if you have children it is all about them. So don't do those things. Now, Dr. Laura and others  might accuse you of being selfish or immature or "afraid of commitment" or some other negative label. So what? You can console yourself with all of your freedom and financial security and enjoying your dreams and NOT dealing with nagging and hostility from the person who is sharing your home. That way, the woman you would have married can work whatever job she wants to. She won't have to deal with your request she be a "slave" like you have been.

Old Time Values Are Now Counterculture

People who are new listeners to Dr. Laura may be confused because she is counterculture - and I say she is counterculture as a very high compliment. If "new" listeners call in and get onto the show before they understand from whence Dr. Laura comes, they may experience bewilderment. Knowing that these are some of her rules, assumptions, conclusions, and values (at least, as far as I've discerned from her media) will give you some understanding and might help you get something useful from the show or the call because there's less chance you'll be confused. Again, these are hers, not necessarily mine. (Although I largely agree with her.) [This entry is being bumped up from years ago, because it is still relevant.]

Cats and Batteries

Part of Dennis Prager’s selling of marriage involves selling women on marriage. To his credit, he doesn’t just focus on selling marriage to men. Fortunately, for him, he got a call to his show, which I heard, that he turned into this column. I have no idea if she was one of those hired callers some shows use.

I found the column at Townhall, which is part of Salem, the company replacing Michael Medved with Sebastian Gorka at the end of the year. There, the column had the headline ”A Message to Young Women from a Career Woman”.

Every Wednesday, the second hour of my national radio show is the "Male/Female Hour." A few weeks ago, a woman named Jennifer called in. For reasons of space, I have somewhat shortened her comments. Every young woman should read them. This is precisely what she said:

Every young woman.

Do I Have the Right to Remain Silent?

I probably didn’t handle this in the best way. There’s probably some way I didn’t think of that would have made things better. I’m always open to instruction and suggestions.[This is bumped up from June 2015.]

It is times like this that I am grateful for Tom Leykis and certain "manosphere" folks, and for the fornication of my wayward youth. I know I'm supposed to say I regret my fornication, but thanks to those experiences, and to Leykis and others, I know that my wife's sexual rejection is about her, not about me. Oh, sure, I don't have it as bad as some husbands. I still get some (mostly mercy, mostly vanilla) sex every two or three weeks. That's not enough for me.

I really, really, really wanted a lover who was enthusiastic, curious, adventurous, and generous, because those are the things I bring to lovemaking. I wanted someone who'd indulge with passion, playfulness, and think of marital lovemaking as bonding, a blessing from the Lord, and a shared hobby.

How does one know that's what they're getting if they avoid sexual interaction with each other before they marry? That’s a question I’ve asked before.

When someone calls Dr. Laura and says their spouse lacks interest, she asks how it was before they married.

Before we married, my wife explained that she was a virgin and was determined to be one until she married. I was fine with that. I thought that was ideal. She was passionate with her kisses. We did more than we should have, if going by what’s been esteemed as moral tradition, and she really seemed to struggle holding back. In fact, as I think I've written before, she did something multiple times she hasn't done even once since we married.

The indications were that she was revved up and ready to enjoy married life in this way. But there were a series of challenges life threw at her/us (you know… life) after I signed on the dotted line, and then we had two kids, and she had everything she wanted: She had the title of "wife" and "mother" and the minivan and the house. She had someone paying all of her bills, including for her overused health insurance and medical bills.

She Digs Masculine Men

When I saw that today's Prager University video was going to be on masculinity, I braced for another video telling men that they should get married. We last addressed the Prager U videos doing that in this entry.

Let's look at the transcript they provided. (If you want to comment on the video, you can do so on YouTube in addition to commenting below.)

Rape, murder, war—they all have one thing in common: Men.

Taken by itself, this sentence ignores that women rape and women murder. And why does war happen? Sure, territory, resources, power... but why do the men engaged in war want those things? Quite often, a large part of it has to do with women. Women are attracted to men with money, power, and fame. War is one way men get those things.

Aggression, violence, ambition unchecked by conscience—all the stuff of “toxic masculinity,” right? 

And, the solution is obvious: make men less toxic. 

Make men less masculine. 

Make men more like women. 

But I’m here to tell you that this way of thinking is not only wrong, it’s dangerous.

Good.

Here’s why: When you try to make men more like women, you don’t get less “toxic masculinity,” you get more. 

Why? Because bad men don’t become good when they stop being men; they become good when they stop being bad.

Still good.

Aggression, violence, and unbridled ambition can’t be eliminated from the male psyche; they can only be harnessed. And when they are harnessed, they are tools for good, not for harm. 

The same masculine traits that bring destruction also defeat tyranny. The traits that foster greed also build economies. The traits that drive men to take foolish risks also drive men to take heroic risks. 

The answer to toxic masculinity isn’t less masculinity; it’s better masculinity. And we know what that looks like.

Still good.

It’s a young man opening the door for a girl on their first date. It’s a father working long hours to provide for his family.

Sigh. I just knew that was coming!

Making Life More Difficult

Tom Leykis has recalled multiple times on his show how a woman who was living with him (I can't remember if he was married to her or not... I think he was) and had "lost" her job and appeared to be content to do whatever she wanted all day (since there were no kids). He came home from work, asked he what was for dinner, and she said she had already eaten, and since he had two hands, he could make his own dinner. She then proceeded to watch him prepare his own meal and criticized how he was doing it.

I think about that story when my wife tells me things she doesn't want me to do, but she offers no alternative solution.

A recent example of this is that we have a child who has been going to school without having had any breakfast. On days I work and my kids have school, I don't see this child before I leave. I tried preparing various things for breakfast this child likes, but usually that stuff has been left untouched due to lack of time. If the child does consume some of the breakfast on the way to school, being driven by my wife, it often becomes trash I have to later clean out from the vehicle.

My wife and this child will not wake up any earlier to make and consume breakfast.

So, I've been leaving packaged nutrition drinks because the kids like them and they give my child nutrients and is handy and less of a mess.

My wife keeps angrily telling me not to get these drinks. She thinks they are unnecessary and a waste.

But she doesn't offer a workable alternative. She no doubt expects me, the person who works full time outside the home, unlike her, to somehow come up with another solution, which will probably involve more hassle for me.

Likewise, my wife almost never cooks for us. Rather, I'm expected to prepare food for her and the kids as well as myself. This doesn't stop her from telling me to NOT pick up food on the way home from errands. Nah, why would  I wanted to save myself time and trouble when I can spend more time in the kitchen?

Don't get married, guys.

Why Are Men Expected to Pay For Dates?

Here is something I posted back in 2007. I will add some thoughts at the end. (- Me, 2015)



*****

Thankfully, I don’t have to deal with the dating game anymore, but my children will.

I’m mostly a traditional guy. I do recognize that times change, however. With that in mind, I have to wonder why it is that men are still expected to pay for dates? To me, this harkens back to an age when young unmarried women lived in either their father or brother’s home and cared for their younger siblings, nieces, or nephews, did the laundry, the cooking, and general cleaning, and didn’t work outside of the home or the family business. Their brother or their father was their protector and literally their representative, as women did not have voting rights until well into the twentieth century. Before the automobile culture, men would court women by going to where they lived – which was their father or brother’s home - and spending time with them in front of a bunch of other people – mostly her family members. Until the modern feminist movement, women were still expected to be homebodies or perhaps work as a school teacher, secretary, or waitress until getting married. It made sense in the past for men to be expected to pay the costs of a date.

Times have changed a lot. Women are now in every career field out there and positions of power. They make up the majority of college students. Women have the same access and privileges men do. They earn their own money and manage their own financial matters.

So why are men still expected to pay for dates?

Yes, there women who insist on “going Dutch” at least some of the time, but by and large, women still expect men to pay for dates - even if they make that half-hearted reach into their purse as if they’re going to offer to pay their half - and they hold it against a man if he doesn’t pay for it all.

Why is this? I mean, clearly lesbians and Britney Spears have proven that women can not only pay their share, but they can support men. But we still hear a lot of men join women in saying, “Real men pay for the date.” Why?

These are the reasons I’ve heard people give:
1. It is tradition.
2. Because he asked for the date (whomever asks, pays).
3. Because she spends so much money on looking good for her date.
4. Because men earn more money.
5. Because he is paying for her time.
6. Because he is expected to be the provider, and paying for dates is a demonstration of his ability to provide.

Let’s look at these reasons one-by-one.

It is tradition. As I wrote above, this tradition harkens back to when women were always under the authority/protection of a male and didn’t earn income for themselves. Those traditions are long gone. It is also tradition that sex was saved for marriage. Why be inconsistent when sticking to tradition?

Because he asked for the date (whomever asks, pays). This one is flimsy, considering that men are also expected to ask for the date. My question might as well be “Why are men expected to ask for the date?”

Because she spends so much money on looking good for her date. Yes, and she does that for her own benefit. The more attractive she is, the more and better choices she will have. Men spend money building nests. They are expected to have a nice car and a nice place to live. This is a poor justification for letting the financial burden of a date fall on the man.

Because men earn more money. Men, as a sex, do earn more money than women, as a sex. HOWEVER, studies show that a woman doing the same amount, kind, and quality of work as a man gets paid the same as a man. So, this one doesn’t hold up, either.

Because he is paying for her time. That makes her a professional - therapist, counselor, prostitute… you decide. Why is her time more valuable than his? And if he is paying for her time, she'd better be extremely attentive to him and pleasant with him.

Because he is expected to be the provider, and paying for dates is a demonstration of his ability to provide. He can easily demonstrate his ability to provide without paying for her share of the date. Wouldn’t he prove that he will be a better provider if he is self-respecting and confident enough to demand that she pay her own way and he save his money for investing so that his future wife and kids will have a better life?

Looks the reasoning for men to continue to pay for dates is rather flimsy. Let’s face it - women just enjoy the drinks, food, gifts, and entertainment at someone else’s expense. That’s understandable, but that's freeloading.

Why Women Should Pay Their Half

I can think of a few reasons why women should pay their own way.

1. To avoid “obligations”. Many men expect something for their money. Most men are dating with sex as a goal, even if they are willing to get married before they have sex - sex is still a main goal. Thus, a lot of men lose respect for a woman who is willing to sleep with him because he spent money on her, especially since she has the ability to pay her own way. If she doesn’t sleep with him, then in this guy's mind she is a tease or is just using him for freebies, unless she really is looking for a husband and has made it clear she won’t sleep with anyone before marriage, no matter how much they shell out.

2. For a legitimate vote in the date. If a woman is paying her way, she has a legitimate say in how the date goes. She can ask to go to a more expensive restaurant, for example. Demanding a more expensive date if you're not paying is sheer hubris.

3. To demonstrate equality. Are you equal? Prove it.

In conclusion, women have just as many opportunities as men now, and so they should pay their own way on dates. If you have a good reason why a man should still be expected to pay for dates, I’d like to hear it.

*****

[From 2015]

I think this entry still holds up well. In recent years, I've heard Dr. Laura say men pay for dates (and have to jump through other hoops) because men value that for which they have to work. In other words, if it is too easy for a man to get, he won't value it. So ladies, tell your man that before he comes home, he has to run around the block ten times. That way, he'll value coming home. But seriously, what does thus imply about women? It is implies either that they don't value that for which they have to work, or it doesn't matter if they value it or not. Or am I missing something?

As far as I can tell, there are two real reasons why men are expected to pay for dates:

1) The inertia of customs. It's an outdated holdover from which women benefit. If women didn't benefit from this custom, it would have been scrapped a long time ago. It's like when I carry around an umbrella a week after it has stopped raining  even though it is not likely to rain again for months. Only, in this case, women are benefiting from that umbrella so they aren't going to tell me I should leave the umbrella home.

2) Supply and demand. As unromantic, crude, crass, or cynical as it sounds, it's just another way men are expected to pay for sex (honest prostitution and alimony being some other ways), because the average man wants sex more than the average woman. I'd like to deny this (that it is about men paying for sex), but mulling it over, it don't see this as false. We like to pretend otherwise, but when you get down to the bare bones of the matter, this is ultimately what's going on. If someone can demonstrate otherwise, the romantic in me really wants to see that.

It's Too Late

Suzanne Venker, who has been one of the women who has expressed awareness of misandrist elements in our culture, posted an entry on her blog, which is "for a marriage-minded woman", that caught my attention. The title is "An Open Letter to American Men: Here's What Modern Women Want".

Now, before we get into the body of the blog entry, I wanted to address the title.

A growing percentage of men don't care what a modern woman wants.

The MGTOW movement and similar reactions to misandry have men swearing off marriage, shacking up, supposedly exclusive relationships, and, for many, dating at all.

This reminds me of a story Tom Leykis tells about when he was trying to get a woman to move out of his house. And yes, it was his house. She had no claim to it, by design. In his telling, he takes her to a therapist because she's ignoring his statements that he wants her to leave. In session, Leykis explains that it is over and he wants her out, and her reaction is, "What about all of the bad things he does?"

It's not a negotiation!

This is like when someone decides they do not want to buy any car on that car lot at all, and they leave, and the salesperson calls after him and says, "Here's what we're going to need from you."

We're not looking to buy the cow anymore, ladies. We might not even care to drink milk. Heaven forbid my wife leave or die any time soon, but if I were to find myself unmarried again, I would never, ever get into another supposedly exclusive relationship ever again, and thus I wouldn't care what modern women want. And I'm doing what I can so that other men won't care, either.

But let's take a look anyway, shall we?

It's Cold Inside

Recently my wife said we had to talk about our sex life. She  had texted me that from the other room. So I joined her in the room where she was, and then found out she'd been expecting it to be a text conversation. I should have left the room right then and I'd have a verbatim account of the conversation to share with you. My memory is excellent though.

I knew from past conversations that this would be her telling me things and me agreeing. Anything else, such as me disagreeing or me telling her things or making requests would  result in things getting worse.

To briefly recap what's going on as I've previously explained here, we are having sex about once every three weeks or less now, and the sex is generally not as enjoyable for me as it was with a couple of girlfriends and flings I had in my wayward youth. I don't dare tell her that, though.

Thankfully, she didn't take the opportunity of this conversation to state again that she doesn't really like sex or eliminate anything from menu of acceptable elements/acts, which is narrow enough as it is.

Her requests were simple enough: