Mom and Dad on a Date Night

My wife and I haven't been getting regular date nights. The last date night we had was months ago. She mentioned that we should go on one. I agree.

Here are the ways we've previously had date nights:

1. Dropping off the kids with my wife's sister and brother-in-law for a few hours.

This is temporarily becoming less of an option, and is going to get worse before it gets better. Maybe it will be a good possibilty again later this year.

2. We go to vist my family and they watch the kids.

When traffic is good, we live about 45-60 minutes from my family... Because my wife insisted on living close to her family.... Most of whom we can't have babysitting the kids.

And what will we talk about on date nights?

Well, have you ever noticed that some people with minor children only seem to talk about their children?

Do you know why?

Because that is all they are doing with their life... raising the children.

I'm either going to be talking about work, the kids, or something on talk radio. My wife is either going to be talking about the kids, couponing, or some way she is accumulating points to covert into gift cards or free stuff we need.

There's nothing new to talk with each other about. We see each other every day. We're not off on adventures apart from each other that we need to fill each other in on.

When we were dating, we were getting to know each other and plan things, so there was that to talk about. And we could talk about the adventures we were having together.

We know each other now, and we're not going on any adventures.

Oh, sure, there are thoughts and interests I don't talk about with my wife. I'm not going to start, either, because it would only cause trouble. I'm not just talking about sexual stuff, but Dennis Prager, who does a weekly apolitical "Male/Female Hour" on this radio show that he calls "the most honest discussion" on terrestrial radio about male-female issues. One recent hour was "Husbands: Do you hide part of your sexual nature from your wife?" Prager urges husbands to be honest and open about their sexual nature, and for wives to accept normal male sexuality, even if they don't fully understand it. This brings true intimacy.

Prager tells the story of how he and a male friend used to exercise together, and how they'd watch the women and point them out to each other and make comments to each other. Prager mentioned something about watching the women at the venue to this man's wife, and she replied, in all seriousness, as though it was just Prager doing that because she "knew" her husband didn't look at other women. Prager said he still has an indentation on his shin where his buddy kicked him under the table as a sign not to correct his wife. According to Dennis, after that, he vowed to himself not to marry a woman with whom he couldn't be honest about his sexual nature.

Sure, ther are some wives - some of them called in during that hour - who will be OK and will even figure out which other women in view will catch their husband's eyes and calmly share the moment with him. "Wow, look at her. She has the kind of hairstyle you like, too." They aren't bothered because they know it is natural on his part and that it doesn't mean he loves or desires her (his wife) any less.

From what I can tell, the women who are prepared to handle something like that are definitely in the minority. Most women aren't prepared to have a husband who is honest about his natural tendency to look at women with this figure or that figure, that kind of walk or this kind of walk, this kind of clothing or that kind of clothing, nor many of his fantasies about what he wants to do with his wife.

If a husband is truly honest and open, the odds are against it paying off.

It might pay off, and he and his wife will be closer as a result and have more fun together as a result.

It is more likely to upset his wife, and perhaps it may do so in a way that will always be there... if even just under the surface, ready to boil over, and sometimes doing just that. It could be more ammunition in fights, and may even be the last straw, setting the man on the course to be shamed before friends and family and the religious congregation, divorced, and visiting his children.

My wife and her sisters are the jealous, territorial type, no doubt because of their father's philandering and their mother's reaction.

So... we'll need to have a date night soon... somehow. And I'd better make a list of subjects to file away in my head so that I don't get accused of withdrawing.

What Are You Thinking?

Thirdage.com listed what it claims are the top 10 sex fantasies for men and women.

Another benefit is that you can enjoy fantasy sex with someone other than your partner without repercussions, because it occurs solely in your mind.

It does not eliminate all repercussions.

Ladies first, of course.

1. Fantasizing About Your Current Partner

As with men, this is the number one sex fantasy for most women: things you've done, or would like to do, to your partner. It seems that the available flesh-and-blood is often more of a turn-on than the unattainable.

This makes sense and is generally positive. The conflict comes in when one partner's boundaries are more restrictive than another.

2. Sex with a Man Other Than Your Partner

For women, this is most often a past lover. Some women feel adulterous or guilty reliving a particularly hot session from the past: don't. It's normal.

It may be normal and common, but it doesn’t mean it is okay. It's not the end of the world, though. This is where someone who saved sex for their partner has a moral advantage.

If it's someone new you're fantasizing about, it's the old want-what-you-can't-have-syndrome.

That's called coveting.

Being involved with a partner doesn't mean all other desirable men go away. So those adulterous feelings have to be dealt with in one way or another. The safest outlet of all is our imagination--and it's remarkably fertile.

It's a nice rationalization.

3. Sex with Another Woman

We're more likely to have same-sex fantasies than he is, probably because it's seen as more acceptable.

Female sexuality is more flexible in that regard.

4. Something You've Never Tried Before

These fantasies can include being tied up, threesomes, group sex, and watching others, among other things.

As I understand it, the Biblical thing is sex with your spouse only, and where/when you have reason to believe others will not see you. Notice I didn't write "in private". So this would eliminate watching others or being on display for others, group sex, or threesomes as a reality. Thinking about it... eh... probably not Biblical either.

Tying up? Yeah. That's something I know my wife will go for. She once stated that everything was okay "except for involving another person, an animal, or the back door." But I know other things are out, too:

1) She doesn't want to involve food of any sort (think chocolate syrup or whipped cream), as she doesn't want to associate food with sex. My thinking is that it is a plus if you're eating a banana split and you have a flashback to a lovemaking session, but apparently she doesn't. This is one reason why I say I simply like sex more than my wife.

2) Swallowing. Heck, as it is, I give her warning so she can pull away entirely. She has said she is willing to work on this, but makes a big deal about it, like we'll have to practice in the shower… but we rarely have the chance to take showers together these days. Not sure what the big deal is, since she did it at least three times leading up to the wedding. (And I don't believe it was right for us to get that carried away before we married, but we did.) I don't know what ingredient in wedding cake suddenly takes this ability away from a woman.

3) Anything that has touched her vagina during a session will not touch her lips.

I find that last one very restricting. I love going down, but doing so means no more kissing on the lips. And I save intercourse only for the very end.

While many women are outrageously experimental and imaginative in their fantasies, they often don't admit a desire for anything "kinky" to a partner for fear of being judged.

That's too bad.

5. Receiving Oral Sex

Like I said.

6. Fantasies Involving Romantic Sex

This is the one most women readily admit to, probably because it's the most acceptable.

Of course.

7. Sexual Ravaging

"Sexual ravaging" is a very common female fantasy. Passionate and forceful but rarely violent and painful, the "ravagings" in our head differ dramatically because we're always in control.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are fantasies where we force him to have sex with us, often in typically male-dominated situations like a courtroom or a business meeting.

Interesting.

8. Being Found Irresistible by a Man

Of course.

9. Working as a Prostitute or Stripper

This one's also popular with women who may be inhibited sexually in real life. In the fantasy, they indulge their true sexual selves under the guise of being paid for it. For men to pay to have sex with you is also reassurance that you're attractive: you have something men want so badly, that they'll hand over cash for it.

Men hand over cash for all sorts of things.

10. Sex with a Stranger

In reality, this sort of sex usually works out rather badly. In our fantasies, it's tremendously rewarding. This is sex for the sake of sex and the reward is pure, unadulterated pleasure. You can be as wicked as you like because you'll never see him again.

Yes, why would you want to be a generous lover with someone with whom you actually share a life?

According to the article, men share the same top fantasy. That’s what we have to say. Otherwise, we don’t get sex.

2. Having Sex with a Woman Other Than Your Partner

Often, she's a past lover, a friend of your partner, perhaps a celebrity. The psychology behind this one isn't too difficult: lots of people long to have sex with someone new and fantasy is a great way of indulging this longing without losing your partner in the process.

Actually, men tend to like variety when it comes to sex.

3. Giving or Receiving Oral Sex

Of course.

4. Sex with Two or More Women

See #2.

5. Voyeurism and Exhibitionism

Men are visual creatures.

6. Having Your Partner Masturbate for You

Watching your partner "play with herself" is up there on most men's wish lists, possibly because it reassures them that women are as into sex as they are. Also, the related fantasy of spying on her while she masturbates appeals to your curious side: what is she really up to when you're not around?

Yes, and what is the best way of pleasing her manually?

7. Anal Sex

Not really.

8. Bondage and S & M

Sure, it is common. Doesn’t really do it for me.

9. Sexual Ravaging

Yes.

10. Sex with Another Man

Not really.

What do you think? Do these lists line up with your fantasies? Is there something big they are missing? I'm rather tolerant when it comes to fantasies. What I mean is that if my wife were to tell me all of hers, nothing would bother me unless it involved kids or serious violence. Then again, women do tend to have different kinds of fantasies than men. It is often a mistake if a husband tells his wife all of his fantasies. They are more likely to turn her off, maybe even repulse her, than prompt some sort of try at them or role-playing. Most of mine are about things to do with my wife that are actually tame. Next would be about real women, especially women who aren't in my daily life anymore, that I never so much as dated. And there is also the past lovers/past experiences thing, but that is minimal. There's one famous woman I've thought about.

Public Infidelity - Do You Notify the Spouse?

There was a time when I would have said, "Yes, of course!" RELATED TO THE KISSIN' COUSIN IN NEW MEXICO wrote to Dear Abby:

My cousin "Cecily" has been married for 30 years to a man the entire family thinks is wonderful. So did I, until I spotted him in a restaurant a few weeks ago kissing a woman half his age -- and who was certainly not Cecily.

I feel awful with this knowledge, but feel worse about ruining their marriage.

You're making some assumptions.

One is that their marriage isn't ruined already. If she has demanded monogamy from him (which I believe is right for marriage) as part of the ongoing marital vows, then he is ruining the marriage. However, there is a possibility that she's not providing him with monogamy (she's cheating or refusing him sexually, or breaking other vows), which means she is also ruining the marriage. Or, maybe she doesn't mind him dating other women... or they enjoy these other women together.

You are also assuming that she doesn't know. I mean, this was in public. She may be fine with it (especially as long as other people don't make an issue of it), she may be choosing to ignore it, or she may not know and would be upset to find out.

Whatever the case, expect some backlash to fall on the messenger. Cecily may think she has a wonderful husband, and having someone else imply he's not could upset her.

Dear Abby responded:

How would you feel if Cecily spotted your husband of 30 years canoodling with a young woman in a restaurant?

The writer is not Cecily. Not everyone's marriages are the same. But perhaps this is a good way to break the news. Ask Cecily what she would do if she saw your husband kissing a young woman in a restaurant. Cecily's answer may be revealing.

I would definitely want to know if my wife was seen somewhere kissing another man. But that's me. Maybe Cecily and her husband have no expectation of monogamy from each other, in which case you also have to wonder what other norms they don't keep.

Have you ever been in a situation like this?

Keeping Secrets From a Spouse?

When is that a good idea? CONFIDENTIALLY IN ST. LOUIS wrote to Dear Abby:

My son "Clay" has been married seven years. There are times I like to discuss things of a personal nature with him having to do with our family, and I have asked him not to mention our talks with his wife.

Clay now has a new family. In the Biblical tradition, this is called "leaving and cleaving". Clay's wife is every bit as much family to him as his mother is, even more so. I've discussed things with my family and haven’t always given my wife all of the details – such as if they question something about her or her family of origin. Though, I suppose a better approach on my part would be to tell them "You should ask her." However, if someone in my family prefaces something with asking me not to tell my wife, I say, "I don’t keep secrets from my wife." Now, if you read this blog, you know I've had thoughts I haven't shared with her – yet. But I do tell others, including her family, not to tell me things they don’t want me to share with her. If it is a surprise party or gift for her, then that is an exception, of course.

These discussions have nothing to do with her.

Not true. If they have to do with Clay, they have to do with her. She relies on Clay. She trusts Clay. They are supposed to have intimacy.

The problem is whatever he tells her, she repeats to her whole family.

She shouldn't necessarily do that.

I do not want our personal problems and other matters to be known by everyone.

Then don't tell them to Clay. But anything that Clay is involved with, his wife should know about (uh, unless he's blogging anonymously and keeping her anonymous, too).

A very dangerous thing is kind of the reverse - when a husband or wife complains to parents or siblings about a spouse on an ongoing basis.

Are there things a person shouldn't tell a spouse? Yes. One example: if a buddy came up to me and told me he cheated on his wife ten years ago and that there was no child or STI as a result and he hasn't seen that other person in years, I would tell him NOT to tell his wife (or anyone else) now. It would only hurt her. But when someone outside of the marriage tells one spouse something that can have an impact on the other spouse, the information should usually be shared.

What say you?

Should She Tell Her Bride Sister the Groom Raped Her?

Can you believe that is even a question?

PREGNANT SISTER wrote into Dear Abby:

I was sexually abused by my sister's boyfriend, "Teddy," three months ago. He is five years older than I am, and now I am pregnant.

Notice the phraseology. She doesn't say that they fooled around. She recognizes what he did as sexual abuse. Although she doesn't give her age, it sounds like she is a minor.

This guy is a creep who should be locked up.

I don't want to tell Teddy or my family because I am afraid of the consequences -- especially because he and my sister are getting married in three months.

Now you know she's immature. She's not realizing that she's about to let her sister marry (and, presumably make babies with), a child molester - or at the very least someone who "cheats" on his fiancée with her sister - or rapist.

I don't want to ruin their marriage, but I can't keep this a secret much longer.

Uh, he is what would ruin their marriage. He is to blame.

I don't know what to do because Teddy is a respectable person and I know they won't believe me if I tell the truth.

No, they think he is a respectable person because nobody has exposed him - and he needs to be exposed. DNA will prove the truth. He'll probably claim that you jumped his bones, but even if it had happened that way, it is no excuse.

Turns out my response is very much like the one Dear Abby gave. I usually read the letter and write my response before I read the actual response, just to compare.

What a creep. If he finds out about the pregnancy, he'll probably try to drive her to an abortion clinic without her family even knowing. And if her sister knows what a creep he is and chooses to look the other way, then she is horrible, too, and has probably passed over some genuinely respectable and nice men. Hopefully, this guy will get prosecuted and the entire family will realize they've dodged a second bullet. Adopt that kid out to a loving mother and father who can take care of a baby, and get this guy away from your family and other families. PLEASE!