More Fun With Statistics - Body Count and Marriage

"People who have no or fewer sex partners before marriage are more likely to be satisfied with their marriage and less likely to divorce."

Have you heard that or some variation of that?

Even if true, it would be completely useless to you if you've already married. If you've had "more" sex partners, then it would be all the more reason to avoid that terrible state contract! Or if she has. If you both have, that's EVEN MORE reason not to marry.

But some will find that statement useful in telling younger people to or anyone who has has "fewer" sex partners why they shouldn't have (more) sex outside of marriage.

It won't deter anyone who doesn't want to get married.

And it might not deter people who are good at analyzing data and statistics.

Let's look at a couple of graphs that are being used to push this message.

As Panscan points out, we're not seeing the entire graph. There's a 5 percent difference between people who have had 2 partners and people who've had eleven, twelve, or scores of partners. But it looks more dramatic when you remove all of the graph under 50 percent.

Also, if we're going to take the graph seriously, men who've had 6-10 partners are better off than men who've had four or five partners, and women who've had 11 or more partners are better off than women who've had 4 partners.

Even if a man "waited" for sex, there's still a 27 percent chance - more than 1 in 4, he will admit to not being very happy in his marriage. And for women, that's 35 percent - more than one in three!

Finally, notice that the husbands are happier than wives. Guys, don't be selfish by asking a woman to marry you!

Now let's look at the second graph.

This graph uses months.

Notice that people are divorcing a couple of years in. Guys, if you're foolish enough to marry, refuse to spend much on the wedding and related events.

80 months in (so a little over 6 and a half years in), the lowest rate of divorce is still 10 percent, meaning 1 in 10 couples. Most people will have had a 25 percent divorce rate! 1 in 4 couples!

Also, if we take this graph seriously, if you've had one premarital partner, you might as well have had countless, at lease as far as six years or so down the line.

What is really going on here?

Don't Go Further Down That Ladder

During his Male-Female Hour on Wednesday, January 25, 2023, Dennis Prager again tried to fool men into legally marrying.

This time, he did it under the guise of asking people who lived together before marriage what the difference was after they married.

Except he didn't leave it at that.

He asked men if they really want to go through life saying "This is my girlfriend" instead of "This is my wife."

See, he has an emotional fixation or being married and being a husband that he picked up very early in his childhood, and so that's a compelling argument to him. People who think through it rationally might say, "Yes, I'd rather keep saying that." or "We can all each other whatever we want. Nobody in our life ever asks to see a marriage license or wedding photos. So I can call her my wife without getting a terrible state contract."

He added that adults have wives and husbands, children have boyfriends and girlfriends.

Says who??? Again, this is his emotional fixation at work. Dr. Laura callers make a point of calling their spouse their boyfriend or girlfriend. (There are some things I would PAY to hear Dennis Prager and Dr. Laura discuss together.)

He said getting married is announcing to the world that you are committed.

Here comes one of his favorite phrases: "So What?"

Most people understand and accept that people who are living together, even people who aren't living together but consider themselves a couple, are committed in the sense that, unless they have indicated they swing or whatever, they are off-limits to new love interests. If one is being invited to an informal engagement, the other is being invited unless it was planned as "no partners."

As Dennis knows, anyone can divorce at any time. Getting legally married is committing to nothing more than a shift in wealth - usually from a man to a woman. That's the only commitment.

People can make an announcement of their commitment without a ceremony, without a terrible state contract.

Dennis asked what the argument for NOT marrying is if you've been living together for years, but he kind of answered his own question: the state contract is terrible.

He argues that living together unmarried is different than living together married. If he wasn't emotionally fixated on being married no matter how many divorces you've had, the answer is in his declaration: living together unmarried is different than being married. Some people are going to prefer living together unmarried. We all know Dennis doesn't. But most men don't have the emotional fixation he does.

Kudos to the last caller, who said his faith took him away from remarrying after his wife and the mother of his children divorced him.

As I've made clear repeatedly on this blog, I think shacking up generally a bad idea (although, there are situations in which is preferable to legally marrying.) So, I'm not defending unmarried cohabitation. Rather, I'm tired of Dennis Prager trying to fool men into legally marrying. He wants men to go further down that ladder. I don't.

UPDATE: Since I originally wrote this, I have learned that couples who cohabitate unmarried have more sex than married couples. That’s statistically, as groups. Individual situations can vary.

Frankly Speaking

Frank Pastore is a retired MLB pitcher who went from atheism to devout (and educated) Christianity. He has an afternoon drive talk show on local Christian radio station KKLA 99.5 FM. He calls it "the intersection of faith and reason". I generally like him, how he does his show, and what he says on his show about theology and politics.

But I do have a quibble.

He posts "run sheets" about what happened on his show, with links to websites of the guests or the material he discusses.

According to his run sheet, on Wednesday, July 22, from 6:28pm to 6:38pm, he discussed this:

Single moms, how can we as the church help you? Men's groups, shame on us for allowing their need to go unanswered!

Before I really get going, I want to at least commend Pastore for actually using the word "shame" instead of just the tactic, as is so common in today's culture, including the church, when it comes to men. Also, I did not hear the segment, but I have heard other segments of his show lately on issues of gender. With that said...

Excuse me? Why is it the responsibility of the "men's groups" at a church to take care of single mothers? Yes, I strongly believe it is the role of the church to care for those in need, including showing those in need ethical, moral, and legal ways to get out of being needy so that they, in turn, can help others. I certainly think it is better that people in need get their help from the church instead of the state.

But it is the role of the whole church. Not just the men, not the "men's groups", to take care of those in need. In the instance of single mothers, it should first and foremost be other women in the church who are ministering to their needs. It certainly isn't the role of men's groups to provide single mothers with companionship and attention.

I like that Dr. Laura makes a distinction when it comes to single mothers. When someone identifies themselves as a single mother (or father), she asks if they are "divorced, widowed, or never married". There is a difference. Most single mothers picked the wrong man with whom to make babies, or they made babies with a generally good man but treated him badly and/or divorced him and took custody of the children. These days, there are a few who deliberately used official or de facto (intentional one night stand or casual fling) sperm donation – intentionally depriving their child of a father. There are widows whose husbands were killed by some fluke or unpreventable terminal illness or negligence on the part of others, or in the line of duty, and they have my sympathies. There are also widows who picked a guy prone to violent or self-destructive behavior, which lead to his premature death.

These things are relevant because the church needs to approach these different women differently. A mother whose husband was killed serving his country or community doesn't have the same issues as a mother who keeps getting pregnant outside of marriage with different men.

Just as there should be roles in the home, it does make sense for there to be roles in the church. Men's groups can be tasked with things like security, doing auto repair and handyman and moving for any members of the church in need, or the church itself. Likewise, women's groups can be tasked with baking, shopping, babysitting, etc. When our first child was freshly born, different couples would bring us home cooked meals. In reality, the wives were doing the cooking. (And God bless them for doing it.)

But men's groups should not be tasked with most of the needs of single mothers. It isn't appropriate. If the father of those children is in the church, then the men's groups can lead him in in the direction of being a good father to his children, and possibly towards reconciliation/marriage to the mother of his children. The men's groups can help in the same way they would help any other person in the church. We shouldn't expect, say, a member of the church who is a plumber who gives a discount to other members of the church to do free work for a single mother simply because she is a single mother.

Otherwise, it should be well-grounded women in the church who are meeting the needs of single mothers.

I will not hold my breath waiting for Pastore, or other people in Christian media, to say "Women's groups, shame on you for allowing the needs of single fathers to go unanswered!"

In general, the church should not be asking men to take care of the needs of women without also asking women to take care of the needs of men. Most of all, the church should be teaching people how to rely on God and how to address their own needs (if God has left it to them) before seeking help from others.