Why Are Men Expected to Pay For Dates?

Here is something I posted back in 2007. I will add some thoughts at the end. (- Me, 2015)



*****

Thankfully, I don’t have to deal with the dating game anymore, but my children will.

I’m mostly a traditional guy. I do recognize that times change, however. With that in mind, I have to wonder why it is that men are still expected to pay for dates? To me, this harkens back to an age when young unmarried women lived in either their father or brother’s home and cared for their younger siblings, nieces, or nephews, did the laundry, the cooking, and general cleaning, and didn’t work outside of the home or the family business. Their brother or their father was their protector and literally their representative, as women did not have voting rights until well into the twentieth century. Before the automobile culture, men would court women by going to where they lived – which was their father or brother’s home - and spending time with them in front of a bunch of other people – mostly her family members. Until the modern feminist movement, women were still expected to be homebodies or perhaps work as a school teacher, secretary, or waitress until getting married. It made sense in the past for men to be expected to pay the costs of a date.

Times have changed a lot. Women are now in every career field out there and positions of power. They make up the majority of college students. Women have the same access and privileges men do. They earn their own money and manage their own financial matters.

So why are men still expected to pay for dates?

Yes, there women who insist on “going Dutch” at least some of the time, but by and large, women still expect men to pay for dates - even if they make that half-hearted reach into their purse as if they’re going to offer to pay their half - and they hold it against a man if he doesn’t pay for it all.

Why is this? I mean, clearly lesbians and Britney Spears have proven that women can not only pay their share, but they can support men. But we still hear a lot of men join women in saying, “Real men pay for the date.” Why?

These are the reasons I’ve heard people give:
1. It is tradition.
2. Because he asked for the date (whomever asks, pays).
3. Because she spends so much money on looking good for her date.
4. Because men earn more money.
5. Because he is paying for her time.
6. Because he is expected to be the provider, and paying for dates is a demonstration of his ability to provide.

Let’s look at these reasons one-by-one.

It is tradition. As I wrote above, this tradition harkens back to when women were always under the authority/protection of a male and didn’t earn income for themselves. Those traditions are long gone. It is also tradition that sex was saved for marriage. Why be inconsistent when sticking to tradition?

Because he asked for the date (whomever asks, pays). This one is flimsy, considering that men are also expected to ask for the date. My question might as well be “Why are men expected to ask for the date?”

Because she spends so much money on looking good for her date. Yes, and she does that for her own benefit. The more attractive she is, the more and better choices she will have. Men spend money building nests. They are expected to have a nice car and a nice place to live. This is a poor justification for letting the financial burden of a date fall on the man.

Because men earn more money. Men, as a sex, do earn more money than women, as a sex. HOWEVER, studies show that a woman doing the same amount, kind, and quality of work as a man gets paid the same as a man. So, this one doesn’t hold up, either.

Because he is paying for her time. That makes her a professional - therapist, counselor, prostitute… you decide. Why is her time more valuable than his? And if he is paying for her time, she'd better be extremely attentive to him and pleasant with him.

Because he is expected to be the provider, and paying for dates is a demonstration of his ability to provide. He can easily demonstrate his ability to provide without paying for her share of the date. Wouldn’t he prove that he will be a better provider if he is self-respecting and confident enough to demand that she pay her own way and he save his money for investing so that his future wife and kids will have a better life?

Looks the reasoning for men to continue to pay for dates is rather flimsy. Let’s face it - women just enjoy the drinks, food, gifts, and entertainment at someone else’s expense. That’s understandable, but that's freeloading.

Why Women Should Pay Their Half

I can think of a few reasons why women should pay their own way.

1. To avoid “obligations”. Many men expect something for their money. Most men are dating with sex as a goal, even if they are willing to get married before they have sex - sex is still a main goal. Thus, a lot of men lose respect for a woman who is willing to sleep with him because he spent money on her, especially since she has the ability to pay her own way. If she doesn’t sleep with him, then in this guy's mind she is a tease or is just using him for freebies, unless she really is looking for a husband and has made it clear she won’t sleep with anyone before marriage, no matter how much they shell out.

2. For a legitimate vote in the date. If a woman is paying her way, she has a legitimate say in how the date goes. She can ask to go to a more expensive restaurant, for example. Demanding a more expensive date if you're not paying is sheer hubris.

3. To demonstrate equality. Are you equal? Prove it.

In conclusion, women have just as many opportunities as men now, and so they should pay their own way on dates. If you have a good reason why a man should still be expected to pay for dates, I’d like to hear it.

*****

[From 2015]

I think this entry still holds up well. In recent years, I've heard Dr. Laura say men pay for dates (and have to jump through other hoops) because men value that for which they have to work. In other words, if it is too easy for a man to get, he won't value it. So ladies, tell your man that before he comes home, he has to run around the block ten times. That way, he'll value coming home. But seriously, what does thus imply about women? It is implies either that they don't value that for which they have to work, or it doesn't matter if they value it or not. Or am I missing something?

As far as I can tell, there are two real reasons why men are expected to pay for dates:

1) The inertia of customs. It's an outdated holdover from which women benefit. If women didn't benefit from this custom, it would have been scrapped a long time ago. It's like when I carry around an umbrella a week after it has stopped raining  even though it is not likely to rain again for months. Only, in this case, women are benefiting from that umbrella so they aren't going to tell me I should leave the umbrella home.

2) Supply and demand. As unromantic, crude, crass, or cynical as it sounds, it's just another way men are expected to pay for sex (honest prostitution and alimony being some other ways), because the average man wants sex more than the average woman. I'd like to deny this (that it is about men paying for sex), but mulling it over, it don't see this as false. We like to pretend otherwise, but when you get down to the bare bones of the matter, this is ultimately what's going on. If someone can demonstrate otherwise, the romantic in me really wants to see that.

It's Too Late

Suzanne Venker, who has been one of the women who has expressed awareness of misandrist elements in our culture, posted an entry on her blog, which is "for a marriage-minded woman", that caught my attention. The title is "An Open Letter to American Men: Here's What Modern Women Want".

Now, before we get into the body of the blog entry, I wanted to address the title.

A growing percentage of men don't care what a modern woman wants.

The MGTOW movement and similar reactions to misandry have men swearing off marriage, shacking up, supposedly exclusive relationships, and, for many, dating at all.

This reminds me of a story Tom Leykis tells about when he was trying to get a woman to move out of his house. And yes, it was his house. She had no claim to it, by design. In his telling, he takes her to a therapist because she's ignoring his statements that he wants her to leave. In session, Leykis explains that it is over and he wants her out, and her reaction is, "What about all of the bad things he does?"

It's not a negotiation!

This is like when someone decides they do not want to buy any car on that car lot at all, and they leave, and the salesperson calls after him and says, "Here's what we're going to need from you."

We're not looking to buy the cow anymore, ladies. We might not even care to drink milk. Heaven forbid my wife leave or die any time soon, but if I were to find myself unmarried again, I would never, ever get into another supposedly exclusive relationship ever again, and thus I wouldn't care what modern women want. And I'm doing what I can so that other men won't care, either.

But let's take a look anyway, shall we?

I'm Not Done Yet

Someone left a comment after my entry telling men  "You Don't Need a Wife" and I thought it deserved a response in this entry.

Why do you keep writing this blog?

Because I want to.

It's cathartic.

It helps me think through things.

Other men need to be warned that, most likely, they shouldn't marry nor have children. Some men (and women) have expressed that this blog has helped them.

Women don’t need husbands either.

Great! Independent women are great. Of course independent women don't need alimony or taxpayer assistance, which comes more from men than women, or a man to pay their bills.

We. Get. it.

If you don't get anything out of reading this blog, don't. There's so much else to do. Here's a link to a company that will help you find other things. But my guess is that you do get something out of reading this blog, which is why you have and why you commented.

You’re miserable!

Hmm. Well my marriage ranges from misery to a limited, pleasant friendship of necessity, and I can see the possibility of my children turning out to be monsters, but I'm not generally a miserable person. I find ways to enjoy life, even if I'm seriously hindered.

It’s never going to get any better for you.

It might not. I'm not counting on it getting better "if only I pay my dues" or something like that. My main goal right now is to live long enough to get the kids raised. Meanwhile, I will always think about ways to make life better within the obligations and responsibilities I have.

I’ve read your reasons for not divorcing. Get over it. You’re young enough to restart your life. You’ll be better off financially and emotionally in the long run.

I find it hard to believe I'd be better off financially after losing half of everything, paying for two legal teams, having to pay alimony for the rest of my life, and having to pay child support until my children are through college.

She’ll find someone else. The kids will survive with at least one parent with a healthy mindset.

I wouldn't want my kids around any person who would want to take up with my wife. She has far, far lower marriage market value than when we married, so the person who'd take up with her at this points would probably be a real piece of work. I wouldn't want her to have the kids by herself, either. And I wouldn't wish her, and especially her with the kids, on any man.

Even if my marriage was GREAT, it's still true that most men don't need a wife.

It's Hard Out Here for a Boy

Matt Walsh's latest at The Daily Wire is about the war on boys.

He wrote a surprisingly good intro:

Our culture is very bad for boys. It's bad for girls, too. It's bad for everyone. But I think we fail to recognize and appreciate the unique struggles that boys face. Partly we fail to recognize it because we are too busy worrying about the Patriarchy's persecution of women. Partly we fail to recognize it because, collectively, we just don't care that much about boys. Partly we fail to recognize it because men are not as likely to talk about their own plight. And partly a man will not talk about it because everyone, even his fellow men, will only laugh at him and downplay the problem.

Exactly.

Men are told about their privilege, but if you look at things honestly you will not see much evidence of this privilege. On the contrary, you will see several profound disadvantages suffered by men in general and boys in particular.

Hmm. Wonder if Walsh has been hit with some reality lately?

1) Our culture preys relentlessly on a boy's weaknesses.

Basically, it's about how women/girls dress all slutty and pr0n is everywhere! Of course that was first.

Retirement is Something To Which Most Workers Look Forward

Dr. Laura has said multiple times on her show that she's going to work until she dies.

And why wouldn't she?

Should The Rock Put a Rock On It?

Good ol' WBW got an opinion published in USA Today today. In it, he urges Dwayne Johnson to marry. Johnson is a pretty smart guy. He was smart enough to move on from being a full-time pro wrestler, which is an extremely grueling and harmful line of work, to primarily work as a headline movie star, a line of work where animators and stuntmen do the heavy lifting and you get your own posh trailer and dedicated assistants while working and the whole production centers around your schedule and requirements.

Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson and Lauren Hashian recently announced they’re expecting their second child this spring — outside of marriage.

Is there anyone who thinks that Johnson and Hashian will not have the money or the available time to provide for the material and emotional needs of their children? What really will matter is how they choose to behave. With a lot of wealthy celebrities, even if they're married,  hired help does most of the tending to the children.

A study examining U.S. births between 2006 and 2010 found that almost one-in-four children (23%) are born to cohabiting couples.

And plenty of others are born to unmarried people who aren't bothering to shack up.

But theirs is not an example that should be imitated.

His career success is.